Missile Turret DiscussionEdit

First off you all need to stop edit warring. If you can't agree go to the talk page and talk it out and maybe have others chime in. Don't just keep reverting edits.

Using the Raynor and Swann articles as a basis we generally list what's under the unit tab in co-op. Which in this case does mean we include missile turrets, just like how Raynor has bunkers. Same deal goes with photon cannons for all protoss commanders.

That does raise the question of whether we want to match the units tab or just stick with units and not go into structures, but I'll leave that open for debate. Subsourian (talk) 14:55, October 24, 2016 (UTC)

I did take it to his talk page. Seeing his response now he yelled at me and told me "accept it" before just reverting me again. But I will hold off reverting as we discuss it.
Simply put, I see no reason to match the units tab. They list the turrets of the races despite the fact that all commanders can use them, while our listing of units and structures should list the things unique to the commanders. Raynor can keep bunkers since only he has them, while Karax can have the Khaydarin Monolith and Shield Battery, etc. Again, we don't list the Barracks on every tech tree, or Cybernetics Core.
For a commander without static defenses, it's not like we have any way in place to note in these unit lists that Vorazun can't build Robotics Bays, or Alarak Stargates, or Swann can't use Barracks. But then, lack of a building in the building list does not mean it cannot be built. On the other hand, I would find it far more valuable, if we deviate from the official tech tree lists, to note that only Nova gets the Ghost Academy, only Vorazun has the Dark Shrine, etc. Special structures like the Solar Forge and Laser Drill can also go in the list.
In short, there's no reason we need to stick to the "official" unit list for our pages. It's not like our ability and upgrade templates copy the tooltips word for word, after all. I move that the defensive turret listings be removed from all the commander pages, if the only argument for keeping them is "well the official list of units has them," that's not a good argument. It's merely an observation. DrakeyC (talk) 15:14, October 24, 2016 (UTC)

Excuse before, but I was not screaming, but emphasizing the most important concepts, but evidently it was not clear. Whatever the reason, we in the SAME IDENTICAL Units section units there are in the table units in the game and in Nova game has Missile Turret, then he also did here, IF will be removed in the official game, then it will also be removed here. Barracks, and others are not put because there are simply NOT in the table units.
And then, although NOW all Terran commanders have the Missile Turret, what do you know who do not put some without in the future? Which by the way the Missile Turret Swann after level 3 are replaced by Spinning Dizzy, and Missile Turret Nova have a different skin than Raynor and Swann, so while Raynor has the Missile Turret Standard, Swann Spinning Dizzy, Nova has the Missile Turret with skin from Covert Ops, as you see the Missile Turret each commander in their way are unique and exclusive.
Here will be not placed EVERYTHING, only the units present in the unit tab of each commander.--PRISON KEEPER (talk) 15:34, October 24, 2016 (UTC)

If it comes down to community voting, I agree with PK, I'm checking on Swann and he have Spinning Dizzy instead of the normal missile turret, the colouring is irrelevant, but it technically means not all commanders have the same missile turret, and if its marked on the units tab, it should be added here too, not just dismissed. Also the yelling was unnecessary, PK, you could of translated it to the discussion page as soon as he reverted it the first time. CombatMagic (talk) 15:47, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
Swann's missile turret is different so of course his should be listed. Otherwise unit skin does not matter if the building is the same. Again, "the official unit tab lists it" is not a good argument. Why must we stick to the official units tab?
"what do you know who do not put some without in the future?" Again, so? It's not like we have a way to note Vorazun can't build Robotics Bays, or Alarak Stargates. So if a commander comes that cannot build missile turrets, are players supposed to recognize this by looking at the other pages for commanders? That makes no sense. DrakeyC (talk) 21:10, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
Look, this is a wiki about StarCraft, and ALL informations about this are taken by official game, novel ecc.., in the OFFICIAL unit tab Nova have Missile turret, so we put that unit in her unit tab, since is placed in the official one, don't exist any reason for not put it. She have that unit.--PRISON KEEPER (talk) 21:28, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
I haven't really kept up on the Nova commander edits, but from what I understand from the discussion above, I'd get behind a turret being listed, but only if it's listed in her commander tab. For instance, if another terran commander gets an alternative to a command center, then it would probably be listed on their page, but it wouldn't behove us to list the command center on every other commander.--Hawki (talk) 21:46, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
I'm thinking about the alternate aut-turrets that Nova's ravens create. It's a unit with a different name and different statistics. I think we can give it its own page, even if it's not on the unit tab. If it doesn't have a different name and the stats aren't that different, I think we could just add a Nova section to the missile turret. I've only got to play Nova Coop once, and I didn't make any missile turrets, so I don't know if there's a different name or markedly different stats (why bother, when you have superhero goliaths?). PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) contribs 22:52, October 24, 2016 (UTC)
But that's just it, Hawki - every commander gets the Missile Turret, so why are we noting it? As you say, if her Missile Turrets were unique, yes, but they aren't. They only thing different about them is the skin. So why are we noting that she has the same defensive structure the others have if there's nothing special about it?
I hate to repeat myself but since he keeps rehashing the same argument, I'll throw out the same counter - "it appears on her commander tab" is not a good enough reason to insist on the Missile Turret being listed. Sticking to the official list of units is an arbitrary and impractical restriction to organization. We should either limit the unit lists to just their units (since among different commanders units get different upgrades anyway) and exclusive structures, or else list everything they can build including universal stuff. Doing it halfway is just irrational. DrakeyC (talk) 01:34, October 25, 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a fair point.--Hawki (talk) 02:09, October 25, 2016 (UTC)
How you know the future commanders will have Missile turrets? And again, Swann DON'T HAVE the regular Missile turret, but the Spinning Dizzy, this mean NOT all Terran Commanders will have Missile turret, now we have Swann in future maybe we will have... I don't know... Hanson with something else. Same for Zerg, NOW everyone have Spine crawler and Spore crawler, but probably we will have Stukov next, with a COMPLETLY different tech tree, with Infested Missile Turret, an Infested Raven for detector (if will be only focused in Infested tech), or even Dehaka with Zerusian needle or Overmind with Sunken colony and Spore colony. If Blizzard listed that units, means something.--PRISON KEEPER (talk) 06:48, October 25, 2016 (UTC)

Yes, Swann is a different case and so his turrets can stay. But I don't just talk about Missile Turrets specifically, I also mean Spine Crawlers, Spore Crawlers, and Photon Cannons. These are all in each commander's tab, so they're universal. Of the four Protoss commanders, all of them have cannons. You could maybe say Karax's should be listed because he can upgrade them uniquely, but otherwise they are universal, so why are they worthy of note?

As for future commanders - when future commanders come out and are different, we can discuss this then, it's silly to make decisions about page structures to accommodate things that may not happen. But okay, let's say we get a Hanson commander and she can not build missile turrets... so? Why does Hanson's inability to build them mean the other Terran commanders should be noted as having them? We don't list Stargates on the other three Protoss because Alarak can't build them, or Spawning Pool on Zagara and Kerrigan because Abathur can't build one. Nor should we, a reader will not be comparing commander pages, seeing Zagara and Kerrigan with the Spawning Pool and Abathur without, to figure out he can't build it.

Unless, again, we make the list list all the commander's buildings. Which I'd be down for. Otherwise it should be limited to their unit composition and unique structures. DrakeyC (talk) 12:36, October 25, 2016 (UTC)

I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing, but I see your point. Honestly I think listing all structures isn't an awful idea but that's also a good bit of overhauling the previous commanders. But better to present as much information on the commanders as possible I think. Subsourian (talk) 12:52, October 25, 2016 (UTC)
I don't see any reason to not list them, if Blizzard do, this mean exist a reason and not all will have them. And Spwaning Pool, btw, in unit tab are listed all combat units, this INCLUDE combat structures, for this we or Blizzard don't write Spawning Pool or others structures, because they are NOT combat unit/structures.--PRISON KEEPER (talk) 13:00, October 25, 2016 (UTC)
You keep coming back to that argument. It's still an erroneous one. DrakeyC (talk) 13:18, October 25, 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure of the necessity of listing all buildings, the units themselves illustrates the tech tree of each commander, but I think the combat buildings should be listed as they do change from one commander to another at least in the case of the terran. Going back a little, listing Swann combat buildings, but not listing Nova's and Raynor's because they are the standard, means that we erase the crawlers from the zerg, and the cannons from the protoss? CombatMagic (talk) 18:30, October 25, 2016 (UTC)
Yes. DrakeyC 00:27, October 26, 2016 (UTC)

Missile turrets are on the units tab from the original game and besides, their uniqueness isn't what makes them notable. It's their ability to directly influence combat, which is why the orbital command is also listed. 19:44, October 25, 2016 (UTC)

"Influences combat" is a rather vague term. The Nydus Network is on the unit tabs for the Zerg commanders, as is Vorazun's Dark Pylon, but I don't see Swann's laser drill or Abathur's toxic nests listed. DrakeyC (talk) 00:27, October 26, 2016 (UTC)
Allow me to clarify. An orbital command can grant detection, having an immediate effect on a battle. Static defenses have a basic attack (as well some giving detection), which has an immediate effect on combat. Blizzard didn't decide their what their system in unit tab selection is.
Because Laser Drill is more an "hero" then a unit, Toxic nest, well is more like a "Zerg Spider mine"--PRISON KEEPER (talk) 06:22, October 26, 2016 (UTC)
The fact remains that it isn't a very notable distinction that some units are listed in their website unit tab and others are not. DrakeyC (talk) 16:04, October 26, 2016 (UTC)
Laser Drill and Toxic nests both act more like calldown abilities than their own units. After all, you can only have one laser drill basically making it a called down basic attack, and the toxic nest is a calldown. Furthermore, Novas missile turrets are unique. In fact, all of Novas structures are unique since they have more hp and in the case of missile turrets, damage than those of other commanders. Does this mean that since they have unique properties, all of her structures should be listed? 15:04, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
Actually Nova's turrets are identical to the normal ones including HP. DrakeyC (talk) 17:06, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
Are they? Well that doesn't change this is true of all her other structures.Juice7739 (talk) 18:22, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, let's put it to a vote. Sign your name below the option.

  • Stick to the official unit listings for each commander
  1. --Hawki (talk) 02:36, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
  2. --Juice7739 (talk) 15:19, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
  3. --CombatMagic (talk) 05:56, October 31, 2016 (UTC)
  • List a commander's tech tree including all units and structures
  1. Subsourian
  • List a commander's combat units and unique structures
  1. DrakeyC (talk) 01:10, October 30, 2016 (UTC)
  2. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) contribs 11:47, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

I vote for list only the unit placed in official unit tab--PRISON KEEPER (talk) 15:29, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Chrono boost synergy? Edit

I'm not quite sure this is the right page for this, but here goes... Chrono boost can be used on Stukov's infested colonist compound to decrease cooldowns, so does it work on Nova's structures too, or Horner's Dominion starport? Juice7739 (talk) 20:36, November 24, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, it decreases all cooldowns on structures. It just can't be used on assault galleons. --Subsourian (talk) 20:58, November 24, 2017 (UTC)
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